So, I bought these wheels for the Spit6...

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 07/10/2015 at 06:32 • Filed to: Spit6

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...which are Dolomite Sprint alloys (and most importantly £100 cheaper than the Cosmic Mk2s I bought previously, so I can sell them to bankroll my quaife LSD). Same specs as the Cosmics, but the offset’s different so I’ll have to run spacers. Question is this. I hear everywhere that running spacers increases wear on the wheel bearings, but I don’t think that’s the whole picture.

From what I understand, the increased wear is caused by greater leverage applied from having the wheel pushed out further away from the hub. But if I’m just making it so that the offset is the same as stock, it shouldn’t have that effect.

If I’m right, that would mean that any wheels, spacers or not, that push the centreline of the wheels further out from the hub increase wheel bearing wear.

So the question is, am I right?

Steve in Manhattan > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 06:42

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I don’t know - all I know is that any variation from stock used to make me veeery nervous. I’m guessing increased tire wear at minimum, but you need an expert.

Wonder if those might be off Hammond’s car. It was pretty well shot when he was done with it.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 06:47

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I would agree with that, although I imagine it will be absolutely minimal leverage/wear increase if the wheels are the same offset as stock. Are the Dolly wheel's weight rating the same as the stock Spits?

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 06:48

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Well, just sitting here visualizing it, what you’re saying makes sense. I’ve seen it said that adding spacers is like going to the wrong offset, which is exactly what it is, but if you’re adding spacers to stay at the stock offset, I can’t see where you’d have a problem.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 07/10/2015 at 06:53

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That’s what I was thinking...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 07/10/2015 at 06:54

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Pass on the weight rating, never come across it before :S if it’s the ‘J’ in ‘5.5J’ that I’ve never known what it meant, then yeah they’re the same :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Steve in Manhattan 07/10/2015 at 06:55

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I doubt they’re the ones off Hammond’s car. There’s a lot of these wheels floating around so the chances of it being those particular ones are pretty slim...

Steve in Manhattan > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 07:00

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Did they use a version of those (or similar) wheels on the Triumph Staaaag?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Steve in Manhattan 07/10/2015 at 07:06

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Yeah they used similar ones on the Stag. 5-spoke though, 14” and different PCD:

Steve in Manhattan > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 07:16

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Watched the Stag Car SOS (again) recently - damn, I love that show.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 07:24

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J is the shape of the rim, but you can probably ignore my above comments, I think it may only be neccesary for commercial vehicles and light trucks. The entire basis of my car knowledge is due to Land Rovers :/

505 - morphine not found > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 07:33

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No idea, but as physics is all about where you would draw your arrows, i suppose you’re correct :-)

Nice wheels though. What size are these?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > 505 - morphine not found 07/10/2015 at 07:41

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Yeah I like them better than my Cosmics :) they’re 5.5J x 13. Dinky little things, but fit rather well for a dinky car like a spit. Just got a batch of paint to refurb them as well. They’re in better nick overall than the cosmics, but are a bit mismatched...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Steve in Manhattan 07/10/2015 at 07:42

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Yeah it’s a fantastic premise. Definitely the noblest of all the ‘lets fix a car up’ shows :)

505 - morphine not found > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 07:45

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I just drove something yesterday on 10” magnesium wheels. You might be able to guess what...

Funktheduck > 505 - morphine not found 07/10/2015 at 07:57

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Was it your gf’s grandmother?

505 - morphine not found > Funktheduck 07/10/2015 at 08:15

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Watch your language, punk, you’re only allowed to speak in the highest regard about a lady of that caliber

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 08:28

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The leverage is not created by where the contact patch of the tire is but where the face of the rim meets the face of the hub/rotor. By putting a spacer in you will absolutely increase the lever arm. It will have greater stresses on it and wear out quick, how much that affects it though is anyone's geuss

CalzoneGolem > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 08:46

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I have an affection for Dolomite Sprints. I fell in love with them because of top gear. Love these wheels.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > 505 - morphine not found 07/10/2015 at 09:00

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Hmmm, I’d guess an OG Mini seeing as I don’t think they sold Hillman Imps across the pond...

Oh, and that Wallace and Grommit pic below is absolute gold :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 09:19

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Basic ordinary loading won’t get worse on your wheel bearings, as that part’s mostly still just in shear if the point of force vs. the point of support don’t alter (i.e. if the final offset is the same). Side loading changes would depend on things like wheel flex somewhat - there are parts of the setup that would experience greater leverage (like your wheel studs), but I don’t think the bearings would be among them in most cases. In summary, shouldn’t have much of an impact.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > CalzoneGolem 07/10/2015 at 09:27

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They’re kickass little cars, again hamstrung a bit by the whole BL debacle (and Saab incidentally, who are to blame for the angled head studs as they wanted an engine whose head could be removed while keeping the cam in place).

Every bit a competitor for the 2002 though, and the 16v Sprint was quicker than the Tii by an appreciable margin. Even moreso if you rebuilt the engine with care (they make 135bhp rather than 127bhp if you jsut rebuild them properly).

CalzoneGolem > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 09:28

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Also, real wood trim!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/10/2015 at 09:29

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Interesting. I’m just trying to work that through in my head. So I would increase the lever arm even if the spacer essentially moved the offset of my new wheels back to the same as the stock wheels?

Funktheduck > 505 - morphine not found 07/10/2015 at 09:42

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You’re the one who brags about being elbow deep.

;)

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 09:53

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It’s all about where the wheel is connected to the axle. That’s where the force is being transmitted. So if you move that force out you’ll increase the lever arm even if the tire is in the same exact position.

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 09:58

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http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven…

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/10/2015 at 10:08

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I always remind people that the limiting factor in all of this will be the tires. If you are running regular tires under “normal” driving conditions, there should be no problem save for maybe slightly accelerated tire wear.

Now you start running high performance tires and start subjecting the car to severe sideloads via high g cornering...you can run into issues. I know that the axles, especially on the front of the larger Triumphs, were prone to flexing under hard driving. Upgraded kits are available for them. While I have not heard of the same issue with the little Triumphs, I would make a point of inspecting axles (and lower trunnions, keep those fronts lubed!) for wear if running upgraded wheel/tire combos. Especially so if racing/hooning is a regular occurrence.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > CalzoneGolem 07/10/2015 at 10:10

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That was one of their draws when they were new. They were basically miniature Triumph 2000s, with all the luxuries you found in those bigger cars.

Actually, that was Triumph’s market niche. They were in the same price bracket as upscale Fords and Vauxhalls, but rather than being tarted up versions of cheap cars, they were dedicated luxury vehicles with the fit and finish to match.

Pretty much what BMW is today actually. That’s probably why BMW kept the Triumph name when they sold the Rover Group. There’s a lot of positive sentiment for Triumph here, and it could have upset BMW in the ‘00s if someone made a competitor here in the UK...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/10/2015 at 10:15

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Yeah I thought the only increased strain would be on the studs. Normally, offset is designed so that the vehicle’s weight rests equally (or proportionally) between the inner and outer bearing races. So long as that remains the same it’s fine wear-wise.

I’m moving to M12 studs from the weedy stock ones anyway, so that should be sorted :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 07/10/2015 at 10:58

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Yeah the front wheel bearings are a bit of a weak spot on the small-chassis Triumphs. Only really shows itself as you start tuning them, but there’s an upgrade kit with beefier bearings that I’ll be getting :)

There’s also a very fancy trunnionless vertical links that puts a ball joint at the bottom rather than a trunnion, which I’m also thinking of investing in :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 07/10/2015 at 11:54

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Great read :) the press at the time were of a similar opinion (although I have been reading mainly British articles, so a bit of favouritism is inevitable). I’m fairly confident that if, rather than mashing together the small but successful Leyland with the huge and failing BMC to make BL, they’d waited until BMC went bankrupt and Leyland cherry-picked the profitable bits out of BMC the British car manufacturing landscape would be utterly different to today. The will was there to make great cars, just not the means.

Think of this as a line-up:

Jaguar:
-XJ6
-XJ12
-E-Type

Rover:
-P6 3500
-P6 2200
-P6BS (look up the prototype, it’s cool as fuck)
-P8

Triumph:
-TR6
-2000/2500
-GT6
-Spitfire
-Dolomite/Toledo

MG:
-MGB
-MGB V8 (ditch the C, go straight for the V8)
-Midget
-ADO16

Austin/Morris:
-ADO16
-Mini
-Austin-Healey 3000
-Austin-Healey Sprite
-Marina (much though it’s hated, this proposed super-company needs bread-and-butter cars and it sold well)

Land Rover:
-Series
-Range Rover

It’s like an all-star cast of great British cars. Cut out the chaff of endlessly feuding BMC nameplates and dozens of factories of pissed off workers (they can be floated off post-bankruptcy to the government if they want to have a stab at running a car company).

With a much more profitable lineup as a percentage, they can pay their workers a bit better which would improve build quality. They can actually put the time and effort required into testing and troubleshooting new models that would mean their mechanicals are much more sound. And then they can work on rationalisation of components to increase economies of scale between divisions (something BL was actually rather good at, even if it was something that was forced upon them by circumstance).

Sure they’ve got a number of competing model lines, but they can use that to generate publicity from rivalry. Whichever side wins, BL still gets the sales, and it helps breed hardcore fans that would choose Triumph/MG/Rover/Jaguar over any competitor, internal or external.